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19 November 2008

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Philip "flipo"

mail sent ..
"Ladies and Gentlemen,

thank you for the prove that religion and politics need to be separated from each other!
I always thought that the Unites States of America are an open-minded and tolerant country, but well seems like I was wrong.
Thank god not every US citizen is such a religious fanatic.

Greetings from the Old World
"

Thorsten Overgaard

Sign of our times?

I hope not.

What I dislike about this is that it inspires hate. And as much hate, it's founded on ignorance and/or outright stupidity.

First, Obama is ot a Muslim (as he's not a follower of the religion of Islam)

Second, even if he was, he's in his good right to a) adhere to the religion he believe in b) and be president if elected by the people

Third, even if he was, what would be wrong with that?

Fourth, I don't think it's a sin anywhere in any holy scrips, actually, to be a Muslim. I might be wrong, but I don't think so.

So wit so much wrong already in the concept, it's hard to argue for or against it, as one can't discuss intelligently a false idea based on false assumptions.

That's why I love to refer to some sanity in the area, the United Nations Human Rights Declaration from December 1948. It was the "manners" decided by the world society on how to deal with other nations and people in a respectful manner so that all could live together without getting into war, genocide and turbulence.

It's 30 articles, but here's two that applies well to that sign. Forget the sign for a moment and read this. Then when you have read it, think out your own sign that would allow others to be them self and you to be you.

Article 18:
"Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance."

Article 26:
"(part 2 of 3) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace."

Now, the tricky part with Human Rights is that it goes two ways. One is that you want to have YOUR human right. That's the part most people yell about. The tougher part is making sure you adhere to he human rights in the way you speak about and deal with others, their ideas, their statements, etc.

And one could use Article 18 to argue that one is one's good right to make a sign like the above. But is it respectful? ... Is i respecting OTHERS rights? Clearly not, and here in Denmark we have some experience on that matter as we have had the "muslim drawings" where a newspaper felt it was their freedom of speech right to publish the drawings, even they were violation three right of those having feelings for Islam.

What a stupid idea. And what did you get? Burned embassies, bob threats, bombs, people killed during demonstrations, boycott for billions of Danish products (made from cows and farmers who had no whatsoever hostile feelings against muslims) .... in short: A complete mess!

The more I see those human rights, and the more I see how and why conflicts starts in this world, the more I see how brilliant simple it would be if anyone knew, understood and lived by those human rights. We would all get peace and understanding, and could use our energy not to fight imaginary enemies and get revenge for others violations of our rights by treating them disrespectful, but create better lives for our self and our friends.

That was a long thing (sorry Chris), but it doesn't come any shorter. If you want to read the full 30 articles in the UN Human Rights declaration, see http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

elinor

will try again... i don't know if the comment i tried to submit from my blackberry went through.

these are the kinds of people who, if they had lived back then, would have been part of the group responsible for crucifying jesus.

Jonesy

As most of you know, there are MANY ignorant people in the world. Most people know that our President elect is Catholic, and, although his minister may have said a few suspect things, Mr. Obama in no way has endorsed ANY religion, Muslim, Catholic, or otherwise.

Separation of church and state, there for a reason.

Don't let a few clowns bug you, because if you do, you'll have a stroke sooner than later.


Darren Abate

"A church without walls"

LOL!

That's all I'll say right now, because we know the rest of this story already.

Tom (Achillies875)

It's not working.
I wonder if they cut off emails to that address because of this haha.

Dan

Let's sign them up to Muslim spam!
Allah in their inbox!

peter

treble k comes to mind

jeremy

why is it all these ultra-religious nutjobs insist on spreading hatred around? whatever happened to "Love thy neighbor"???

C Weeks

@flipo: it's interesting to me that rednecks from "the new world" think they know more than everyone in the "old world."

i'll take the old world any day of the week. happy that you see there are some of us in this country -- even though 49% of the populace voted for the same ol' redneck politics.

C Weeks

@thorsten: when are people going to realize that no religion or philosphy is correct? when are people going to realize that even if they have a belief that they should be tolerant of others? i think it's something everyone -- myself included -- have to practice on a daily basis. honestly, i think that jesus would agree. i tend to agree with john lennon, actually:

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religon too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...

Imagine no possesions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
In a brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...

You may say i'm a dreamer
But i'm not the only one
I hope some day you'll join us
And the world will be as one

C Weeks

@elinor: and why would they be party to a crucifixion? because they are sheep and only follow an uneducated instinct to follow. these people make me friggin' sick.

C Weeks

@jonesy: you're totally right. that said ... it amazes me there are these people who attempt to extrapolate something from the bible and sell it to "their flock" ...

C Weeks

@darren: honestly, we have to have legislation which bars not-for-profit churches from backing any political organization. i don't even think a pastor should be able to advise as to how to vote.

C Weeks

@tom: we'll have to do a bit more ferreting of their site. ;)

C Weeks

@dan: hahahahahahahaha

C Weeks

@peter: i'm SURE at least one of the treble k's is a member of the congregation.

C Weeks

@jeremy: isn't that part of what christians believe? how about bearing false witness? how the fuck about "thou shalt not kill" even though they all agree with waging illegally manufactured and supported wars. keep 'em alive in the womb but once they're out definitely send them off to die in unjust wars and sentence them to even a dubious conviction (e.g., the memphis three).

Sonny Thakur

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” ~Gandhi

Very true.

Ravi

Apparently they're citing Exodus 20:3 as the reason that Obama's presidency is a sin... "Thou shall no have any gods before me"
what the fuck?

Rastislav

This sign can only encourage hatred and is totally the opposite message of what this people claim to advocate. Why are some people so scared of change? And a fresh beginning? So many insecure people in this world.

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate . Hate leads to suffering".

Yes I quoted Yoda... I think that even a fictional character has more credibility than these clowns.

Take care!

Thorsten Overgaard

Chris, I think we agree. And sometimes we may forget.

Now, on the Lennon song. I like it and I listen to it from time to time. And each time it annoys me that there's some old-russian-marxism to it (no property), as well as the European Community (no borders).

But I listen to it anyhow, and Lennon wasn't always that direct why sometimes he meant something entire different ;-)

As for religions, almost all religions has as their goal an ideal state of mind (heaven) of some sort, as well as love your neighbor (love, respect and tolerance). In that sense, religions are great, even they try to obtain just that in different ways.

But it's not a higher power who will create it, it's you. (wow, that had a very Obama-swing to it) Not by praying about, but by practicing it.

Riccardo

This is so stupid.

As you know I am not an Obama fan at all, but spreading hate is not in the faith of any Christian religion nor in Islam! Or the majority of the religions in any case.
I am not a reilgious perosn, but I am Catholic and I find it pityful that some persons spread their beliefs by tagging them as religius speaking of "sin".
How can the Bible speak about Islam whch was not invented yet?
I bet the pastor there has a contorted way to prove his reasoning.

But it doesn't help. It is poison for the society.

If you don't know how to defend your position rationally, you end up making it a reilgious dogma: some people won't question it then anymore.

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